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[Music]

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this episode is skeptical

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getting real about the big picture

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questions we have covered science

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medicine technology and the physical

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world

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we search for something greater Beyond

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power understanding please search for

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the origin of the universe the greatest

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conceivable existence

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and how the data from a variety of

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spiritually transformative experiences

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is staring us right in the face people

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who undergo these things are transformed

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in in so dramatic ways how do you

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explain the fact that atheists now

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believe in Supreme Beings after having

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these spiritual transformative

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experiences or dramatically change their

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opinions on on major aspects of

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philosophical and personal life that

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first clip is kind of interesting it's

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from the movie proximity when E.T comes

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down looking for Jesus or just somebody

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who can tell them what the real story is

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and the second clip was from returning

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guest the very excellent Dr Robert Davis

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who I believe is really tapping into the

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Keys of the Kingdom when it comes to

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understanding E.T and that is

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understanding spiritually transformative

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experiences this is kind of a

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wide-ranging discussion but I think it

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lands on a couple of really the

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important points I hope you enjoy it

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welcome to skeptical where we explore

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controversy of Science and spirituality

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I'm joined today by Dr Robert Davis Bob

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has been on the show a couple of times

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he's kind of a go-to guy for me because

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well a couple things one he has just his

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Stellar academic background all the

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credentials NIH grants

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published peer-reviewed journals all

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that stuff and then he goes off and he

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writes all these terrific books about

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all this off the wall stuff like

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spiritually transformative experiences

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Consciousness beyond the biological

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robot meaningless Universe nonsense UFOs

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just because it comes up Kundalini stuff

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so he just recently

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sent me this

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which is a paper he just published in

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Edge magazine which is from the Journal

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of scientific exploration which if you

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know this show you know it's a terrific

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Journal it's peer review top-notch

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people who are thinking out of the box

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but are really doing science so Bob

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publishes this paper spiritually

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transformative experience triggers

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great stuff piqued my interest

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uh particularly as it relates to tying

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just a lot of stuff together that is uh

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like for all of us that is US listening

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to skeptico we get it we get that you

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can't just talk about

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um

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Consciousness without talking about

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near-death experience Auto Body

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Experience psychedelic experience maybe

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ET experience and so what Bob is doing

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is kind of putting that all on the table

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again in a scientific way and saying hey

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maybe we need to talk about all this

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stuff together in order to have a

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meaningful discussion

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but then Bob made the mistake of sending

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me a video he has recently stumbled

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across which many of us have seen by

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this time with Dr Gary Nolan at the salt

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connections which if you're unfamiliar

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it's kind of like Ted Talk kind of thing

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like beefed up tip talk kind of thing

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where he says 100 aliens have already

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arrived

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so

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I'm just laying the groundwork here and

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also for my friend Bob to let him know

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that buddy you've kind of uh laid

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laid the foundation for me pulling you

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in a million directions Beyond

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spiritually transformed experiences and

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uh let's get to it right

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oh please I look forward to it and thank

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you I can't I can't follow up on that

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introduction thank you for that you know

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this is a chess game

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and and there's so many pieces out there

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that that one tries to make sense of and

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I and I did that my whole life and it's

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in a scientific setting you know

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laboratory setting of course and it

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published or Parish environment and and

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since retirement I dedicate that same

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level of curiosity to what I deem to be

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the most important questions of of our

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time of all times you know what is in

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HIV allity was Consciousness all of

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these things that we don't that language

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can't ideally Explain express this

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objective experience the interactions

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with alternate Realms non-human

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intelligence this column et's whomever

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the deceptions and lies that are out

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there by so-called experts that we hear

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brain hacking uh the Galore

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misinformation abounds why do you put

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those things together necessarily like

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that's the level let's hold it and

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that's the level three stuff that you

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and I will talk about and then sometimes

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I think we breathe these past things in

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a way that doesn't let other people into

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the conversation we're having because

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for you to say spiritually

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transformative experiences are clearly

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if you study them scientifically as you

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have they St we start to see these

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patterns across these all sorts of these

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experiences patterns across near-death

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experience Out of Body Experience

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psychedelic experience dare we say

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ET experiences so you break that down in

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a scientific way and you write the

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papers and read it and we all go wow

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there's these cultural filters that we

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can apply on it but when we strip past

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our individual personality

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there seems to be what science would

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call an observable pattern but Bob you

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can't start laying on the deception and

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the misinformation because that Nest

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doesn't necessarily have anything to do

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with that why is it so hard for other

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academics intellectuals people we rely

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on to kind of do the full stop with just

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where you're at with the spiritually

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transformed experiences which seems

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obvious and say okay that's a reality

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that we have to deal with why do we have

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deception and misinformation on top of

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that well it's unfortunate and and that

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that some of that exists it certainly

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exists in all levels of society and

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certainly in ufology

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because of the existing misinformation

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that we have all been exposed to and we

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continually hear that trying to seek the

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truth now if you even today as we speak

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for instance NASA is having a hearing on

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the on uaps uh the Arrow just had it you

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know I would focus on the scientific

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evidence for any definitive word you

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know when when people start going into

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this spiritual transfer of experiences

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which I don't denounce I fully uh am a

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proponent of the evidence and and

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continued to try to seek ways in which

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we can make sense of that in in like a

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trying to separate the sense of the

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nonsense of the misinformation from what

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truly is scientific in other words and

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and not biased by even science itself I

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see misinformation in science because

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the explanations for these near death

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out of body Kundalini Etc uh experience

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that transform people in remarkable

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permanent ways and they try to seek

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explanations with Fierce determination

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from that moment forward their

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explanations are discipline specific

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they're biased so we are being fed not

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intentionally with misinformation and

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but with inaccurate biased uh

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perspectives that are based on one's

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previous educational uh experience if

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I'm a neuroscientist and I do an

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experiment with giving somebody DMT and

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they say they interacted with non-newman

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entities perceived an alternate reality

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and now they believe in a deity we had

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before they were atheists and there and

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life after death in the whole nine yards

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and they're transformed and this has

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happened we see this in studies at John

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Hopkins and in other places well that's

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meaningful that means something but but

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does that really mean the person

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interact with an alternate realm as they

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claim and believe during their nine to

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five job in an office setting at this

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time even though it happened you know

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five years ago it's real like the back

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of their hand yet the neuroscientists

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will give an explanation that's brain

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based ego dissolution based on

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connectivity increases in this region

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versus is it you know that point of view

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when in fact that could be

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misinformation may be the wrong term but

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the reader the reader is misinformed or

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a donut is interpreting it too literally

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hold on let me let me pause you there

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because we might start mixing things

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together again in a way that I want to

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really make a concerted effort to pull

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apart so you have I have this experience

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right I'm in the Rick Strassman studies

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in New Mexico they're ordained by the

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government where you're going to give me

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DMT I take the DMT I go and I go into

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the shapeshifter world the shamanic

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world when I see these other things and

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they look a lot like what E.T contactees

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have described in this and that I have

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that experience in as you describe it

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that experience is real to me and then

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as you point out in your books which are

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terrific because your books are not just

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science they are scientific because

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you're a scientist but they're also

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experiential you have experience with

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the UFO phenomena you have experience

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with the

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after death realm whatever even though

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we can't describe that completely so

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you're kind of coming at this from a

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different perspective and I think when

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you then talk about the neurologist

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who's trying to process that I think we

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have to kind of make a a cleaner break

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there in terms of that neurologist a lot

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of times is operating in this as I call

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it biological robot meaningless Universe

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materialist perspective that is just a

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major misstep I mean we don't have to

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bring them into the club and say oh they

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have an opinion too no they're just kind

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of flat earthing it in a way for

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somebody like you who's looked at all

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this evidence and all this science you

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would just kind of be nice but you'd Pat

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him on the head and say you know go do

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about 10 years of research and then come

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back so I think sometimes we confuse the

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issue when we talk about the neurologist

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who is just not clued into has this

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dogmatic view of things that has clouded

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their vision and we put that side by

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side with who we're going to talk about

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in a minute a Dr Gary Nolan who from

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every way we look at it is playing a

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game man he's peddling an agenda he's

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CIA he's and what's your partially CIA

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you're CIA all the way and there's all

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these other connections so whether he is

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all that or not I'm not against Gary no

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one seems like a great guy to me but I'm

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just saying that potentially is a

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different character on this playing

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field than your normal you know

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run-of-the-mill Sam Harris just kind of

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Clueless neuroscientist who's

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caught up in their own I'm an atheist

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therefore I got to protect my turf kind

278
00:12:01,069 --> 00:11:59,399
of thing do you understand what I'm

279
00:12:03,710 --> 00:12:01,079
saying in my kind of belaboring a point

280
00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:03,720
there that that that needs to be drawn

281
00:12:09,410 --> 00:12:06,480
out or is it obvious to everybody

282
00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:09,420
yeah there's there's a lot there and

283
00:12:15,590 --> 00:12:12,480
that's that's why I approach it almost

284
00:12:17,930 --> 00:12:15,600
as as if it is a chess game you know you

285
00:12:19,550 --> 00:12:17,940
bring up my personal experiences yeah I

286
00:12:21,530 --> 00:12:19,560
saw two iron chew UPS I had a shared

287
00:12:23,449 --> 00:12:21,540
death experience not near death a sheer

288
00:12:25,790 --> 00:12:23,459
death and knowingness that my colleague

289
00:12:28,670 --> 00:12:25,800
died which we discussed uh something

290
00:12:31,009 --> 00:12:28,680
that's uh Indescribable but intensely

291
00:12:34,009 --> 00:12:31,019
meaningful uh and it had a Kundalini

292
00:12:36,889 --> 00:12:34,019
Awakening remarkable energetic shifts of

293
00:12:39,410 --> 00:12:36,899
the very positive uh very meaningful I'm

294
00:12:42,410 --> 00:12:39,420
not alone it flipped me like it does

295
00:12:45,170 --> 00:12:42,420
many many people and that has been well

296
00:12:48,110 --> 00:12:45,180
documented by by Wale Kat I think she

297
00:12:50,449 --> 00:12:48,120
was a you interviewed her uh a

298
00:12:53,090 --> 00:12:50,459
researcher professor at University of

299
00:12:55,129 --> 00:12:53,100
Oregon what's going on and then you have

300
00:12:57,769 --> 00:12:55,139
straussman you mentioned with the DMC

301
00:13:00,769 --> 00:12:57,779
studies in John MCA psychiatrist I met

302
00:13:03,230 --> 00:13:00,779
they compared their notes between the

303
00:13:04,910 --> 00:13:03,240
the people who claim to be have had that

304
00:13:08,090 --> 00:13:04,920
interacted with non-human entities

305
00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:08,100
associated with the UAP and straussman's

306
00:13:12,769 --> 00:13:10,800
evidence with DMT subjects and and they

307
00:13:17,150 --> 00:13:12,779
were blown away literally quote unquote

308
00:13:19,790 --> 00:13:17,160
by the the similarity of the experiences

309
00:13:22,250 --> 00:13:19,800
of these two distinctly dissimilar

310
00:13:24,350 --> 00:13:22,260
groups and I take that and I embed that

311
00:13:27,050 --> 00:13:24,360
in the article then I'll take other

312
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:27,060
pieces that I regard as quite

313
00:13:32,269 --> 00:13:29,760
interesting from so-called experts I try

314
00:13:34,670 --> 00:13:32,279
to seek out that that kind of objective

315
00:13:37,610 --> 00:13:34,680
information as best as possible not that

316
00:13:40,310 --> 00:13:37,620
they're correct no means nor is my

317
00:13:42,170 --> 00:13:40,320
interpretation of the evidence correct

318
00:13:45,290 --> 00:13:42,180
but I'm trying to make sense of nonsense

319
00:13:47,329 --> 00:13:45,300
or misinformation not intentionally not

320
00:13:50,030 --> 00:13:47,339
purposely not always purposeful

321
00:13:52,670 --> 00:13:50,040
deception not always but we see evidence

322
00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:52,680
of that certainly and we'll get there to

323
00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:54,720
make a coherent whole as best as

324
00:14:00,290 --> 00:13:57,120
possible so the neurologists will Flat

325
00:14:03,170 --> 00:14:00,300
Earth it will put his or her diatribe on

326
00:14:05,990 --> 00:14:03,180
it discipline specific and biased as I

327
00:14:08,449 --> 00:14:06,000
mentioned but but then you have uh you

328
00:14:11,329 --> 00:14:08,459
mentioned Gary know if you want to go

329
00:14:13,610 --> 00:14:11,339
there now uh well regarding his field

330
00:14:16,009 --> 00:14:13,620
the geneticism analysis from Stanford

331
00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:16,019
University Nolan Labs named after him

332
00:14:19,970 --> 00:14:18,000
when you go on and on with his Vita and

333
00:14:21,889 --> 00:14:19,980
he comes out of the salt conference just

334
00:14:24,290 --> 00:14:21,899
a few days ago and he says a hundred

335
00:14:26,449 --> 00:14:24,300
percent he believes 100

336
00:14:27,710 --> 00:14:26,459
ET is real and they're here Paul's right

337
00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:27,720
there Paul's right there we'll play it

338
00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:30,959
would be helpful to qualify yourself

339
00:14:35,150 --> 00:14:33,120
because you are going to make some very

340
00:14:36,590 --> 00:14:35,160
bold statements here today

341
00:14:38,329 --> 00:14:36,600
and I would love for people to

342
00:14:40,310 --> 00:14:38,339
understand why they should believe you

343
00:14:42,230 --> 00:14:40,320
and so perhaps can you give a little bit

344
00:14:44,509 --> 00:14:42,240
of your background sure

345
00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:44,519
um so I'm a professor in the department

346
00:14:49,730 --> 00:14:48,000
of pathology at Stanford uh the primary

347
00:14:52,670 --> 00:14:49,740
research work in my lab is cancer

348
00:14:54,530 --> 00:14:52,680
Immunology virology we also do a lot of

349
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:54,540
work in BIO threat so we've worked with

350
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:58,320
ebola zika uh covid when it was a big

351
00:15:02,269 --> 00:15:00,720
problem primarily the work in my lab is

352
00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:02,279
the development of instrumentation and

353
00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:04,560
algorithms to understand the complexity

354
00:15:08,569 --> 00:15:06,959
of the immune system in cancer and in

355
00:15:11,150 --> 00:15:08,579
the process of doing that we've created

356
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:11,160
any of a number of Technologies which we

357
00:15:16,129 --> 00:15:12,959
spun out into companies it's now nine

358
00:15:17,930 --> 00:15:16,139
companies two of them are on NASDAQ and

359
00:15:20,030 --> 00:15:17,940
these Immunology instruments are used

360
00:15:22,670 --> 00:15:20,040
pretty much around the world uh in

361
00:15:23,930 --> 00:15:22,680
almost any advanced Immunology analysis

362
00:15:25,250 --> 00:15:23,940
and work

363
00:15:26,990 --> 00:15:25,260
understood

364
00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:27,000
and

365
00:15:31,970 --> 00:15:28,800
I'm curious

366
00:15:36,230 --> 00:15:31,980
do you believe that extraterrestrial

367
00:15:37,910 --> 00:15:36,240
intelligence has visited planet Earth

368
00:15:39,889 --> 00:15:37,920
I think you can go a step further it

369
00:15:42,530 --> 00:15:39,899
hasn't just visited it's been here a

370
00:15:44,329 --> 00:15:42,540
long time and it's still here we'll end

371
00:15:46,189 --> 00:15:44,339
it there and then we'll we'll come back

372
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:46,199
to it but I want to let you know where

373
00:15:51,410 --> 00:15:48,720
I'm going with Gary Nolan and that's

374
00:15:54,350 --> 00:15:51,420
that I think he's carrying water for

375
00:15:56,810 --> 00:15:54,360
somebody else so what are you thinking

376
00:15:58,730 --> 00:15:56,820
when you see Gary Noland who is he to

377
00:16:00,790 --> 00:15:58,740
you what is he doing what is he talking

378
00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:00,800
about

379
00:16:05,810 --> 00:16:03,839
Gary I think is the modern day version

380
00:16:08,449 --> 00:16:05,820
of John Mack

381
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:08,459
similarities and obvious differences of

382
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:10,800
course John Mack again your audience I'm

383
00:16:14,329 --> 00:16:12,480
sure is familiar with them for those not

384
00:16:16,009 --> 00:16:14,339
it was again a psychiatrist at Harvard

385
00:16:18,730 --> 00:16:16,019
who had a fight for tenure after

386
00:16:21,050 --> 00:16:18,740
advocating again that he

387
00:16:22,250 --> 00:16:21,060
believed that people believe that they

388
00:16:25,129 --> 00:16:22,260
were interacting with non-human

389
00:16:27,829 --> 00:16:25,139
intelligence Etc but Gary Nolan is

390
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:27,839
saying that as it applies to you would

391
00:16:32,509 --> 00:16:30,000
think the nuts and bolts we have some

392
00:16:34,970 --> 00:16:32,519
meta materials analyzing it and

393
00:16:37,970 --> 00:16:34,980
Consulting with the CIA and others who

394
00:16:40,129 --> 00:16:37,980
have access to it and and he's you know

395
00:16:42,829 --> 00:16:40,139
likely not disclosing it and that's why

396
00:16:45,730 --> 00:16:42,839
he maybe says I'm 100 certain without

397
00:16:48,170 --> 00:16:45,740
disclosing it I'm not a personal

398
00:16:51,470 --> 00:16:48,180
disinformation but maybe maybe a little

399
00:16:53,090 --> 00:16:51,480
misdirection saying he he's convinced he

400
00:16:56,269 --> 00:16:53,100
has the evidence but it's not the right

401
00:16:57,710 --> 00:16:56,279
time to share it and in a sense uh you

402
00:17:00,889 --> 00:16:57,720
know he's he's letting the cat out of

403
00:17:02,810 --> 00:17:00,899
the bag before the evidence in in detail

404
00:17:05,569 --> 00:17:02,820
is provided that's the only thing I

405
00:17:07,069 --> 00:17:05,579
could think of why he says 100 unless

406
00:17:09,169 --> 00:17:07,079
he's done preparing us for some

407
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:09,179
disclosure that's about to happen Okay

408
00:17:15,230 --> 00:17:12,240
but but here's the pause I got to put in

409
00:17:19,610 --> 00:17:15,240
that and that's that you know this is

410
00:17:21,409 --> 00:17:19,620
who else Gary Nolan is and I have I

411
00:17:24,890 --> 00:17:21,419
pulled up on the screen right now yeah I

412
00:17:27,289 --> 00:17:24,900
got it I got it that he makes to fouchy

413
00:17:29,590 --> 00:17:27,299
at the end when thought she retires he

414
00:17:33,530 --> 00:17:29,600
says thank you Dr fauci for your

415
00:17:38,210 --> 00:17:33,540
tremendously positive contributions to

416
00:17:41,390 --> 00:17:38,220
immunology and virology and I just gotta

417
00:17:45,409 --> 00:17:41,400
play a couple other little clips into

418
00:17:47,390 --> 00:17:45,419
this one to fully put that into context

419
00:17:49,610 --> 00:17:47,400
because the first place I'd go with the

420
00:17:52,669 --> 00:17:49,620
Gary Nolan thing which some people might

421
00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:52,679
have forgotten but Diana Walsh pasolko

422
00:17:58,250 --> 00:17:54,720
who wrote the book American Cosmic which

423
00:18:01,010 --> 00:17:58,260
was extremely influential book

424
00:18:01,970 --> 00:18:01,020
the main characters in that book are two

425
00:18:04,250 --> 00:18:01,980
guys

426
00:18:07,310 --> 00:18:04,260
and they're pseudonyms in the book one

427
00:18:09,529 --> 00:18:07,320
is James and one is Tyler Durden and

428
00:18:12,350 --> 00:18:09,539
James is the good guy

429
00:18:14,450 --> 00:18:12,360
he's the guy who's doing the real

430
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:14,460
science and and here's what she says

431
00:18:23,750 --> 00:18:18,960
about about James and James is outed

432
00:18:26,210 --> 00:18:23,760
later as none other than Dr Gary Nolan

433
00:18:29,690 --> 00:18:26,220
okay so the thing is is and I thought

434
00:18:32,930 --> 00:18:29,700
and I hoped that I could evade that at

435
00:18:35,150 --> 00:18:32,940
first I was very suspicious and to the

436
00:18:36,950 --> 00:18:35,160
point of being frightened really of a

437
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:36,960
lot of the people that I met because

438
00:18:40,610 --> 00:18:38,880
they were not at a level that you know

439
00:18:44,049 --> 00:18:40,620
these were not people that I'd ever met

440
00:18:46,909 --> 00:18:44,059
before and there were some who were

441
00:18:48,830 --> 00:18:46,919
professors and who were studying this as

442
00:18:51,230 --> 00:18:48,840
well and I I kind of bonded more with

443
00:18:52,730 --> 00:18:51,240
them like James in the book I bonded

444
00:18:55,370 --> 00:18:52,740
with James a lot more and he's a good

445
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:55,380
friend of mine and so the other people

446
00:18:59,930 --> 00:18:57,840
that are you know way out there and

447
00:19:01,789 --> 00:18:59,940
doing the that space can I just

448
00:19:03,770 --> 00:19:01,799
interject something because the

449
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:03,780
weirdness never stops yeah that's James

450
00:19:10,190 --> 00:19:06,720
right James there's also an experiencer

451
00:19:11,450 --> 00:19:10,200
who's had multiple experiences with

452
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:11,460
ET if you want to call it that for

453
00:19:18,970 --> 00:19:14,720
simple terms and his main driving

454
00:19:22,549 --> 00:19:18,980
ambition research project is to kind of

455
00:19:25,730 --> 00:19:22,559
counteract this ability that E.T has to

456
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:25,740
seem to just bump into us in the

457
00:19:28,610 --> 00:19:27,360
extended Consciousness realm wherever he

458
00:19:29,870 --> 00:19:28,620
wants and he wants to have greater

459
00:19:31,549 --> 00:19:29,880
control of that yeah

460
00:19:35,210 --> 00:19:31,559
so again you know maybe I'm making too

461
00:19:37,190 --> 00:19:35,220
big a deal out of this but James and

462
00:19:39,230 --> 00:19:37,200
Diana Wallace pasoka's book which is

463
00:19:41,330 --> 00:19:39,240
this phenomenal book showing about the

464
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:41,340
invisible college and how there's these

465
00:19:45,770 --> 00:19:42,960
good guys

466
00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:45,780
who you can really trust and I'm not

467
00:19:48,590 --> 00:19:46,799
going to give you his name his name is

468
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:48,600
James so his name is really Gary Nolan

469
00:19:52,789 --> 00:19:50,640
as it's later revealed and he's a good

470
00:19:55,010 --> 00:19:52,799
guy he's a scientist like I am you know

471
00:19:57,289 --> 00:19:55,020
because she's a tenured professor in

472
00:20:01,610 --> 00:19:57,299
religious studies right

473
00:20:03,770 --> 00:20:01,620
but this is also Gary in August of 2022

474
00:20:07,070 --> 00:20:03,780
when he's saying fauci tremendously

475
00:20:09,230 --> 00:20:07,080
positive contributions to immunology and

476
00:20:11,870 --> 00:20:09,240
virology now I don't have to remind

477
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:11,880
folks but I think I will

478
00:20:19,070 --> 00:20:15,840
who Dr Anthony fauci turns out to be now

479
00:20:21,650 --> 00:20:19,080
in 2023 so as I play these next couple

480
00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:21,660
clips into this I want you to keep in

481
00:20:27,110 --> 00:20:24,720
mind what is Gary thinking how is Gary

482
00:20:30,230 --> 00:20:27,120
the Stanford scientist the Stanford

483
00:20:32,150 --> 00:20:30,240
immunologist now all the data's in you

484
00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:32,160
can analyze it you can look across the

485
00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:34,320
board how is he maintaining that

486
00:20:44,510 --> 00:20:41,990
hold on one sec let me play it I know

487
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:44,520
I'm jabbering it up here but that's uh

488
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:47,039
I'm not gonna I'm sorry I can apologize

489
00:20:49,730 --> 00:20:48,480
for that I'm just going to play it in

490
00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:49,740
and we'll have plenty of time to talk

491
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:51,600
let me get this

492
00:20:57,650 --> 00:20:54,960
hey conspiracy theorists as you know

493
00:21:00,049 --> 00:20:57,660
questioning Albert baller CEO of Pfizer

494
00:21:02,090 --> 00:21:00,059
or Anthony fauci former head of

495
00:21:04,669 --> 00:21:02,100
everything important is basically an

496
00:21:06,169 --> 00:21:04,679
attack on science itself so if there

497
00:21:08,450 --> 00:21:06,179
were a test that could have revealed

498
00:21:10,250 --> 00:21:08,460
that many of the laws and measures that

499
00:21:13,190 --> 00:21:10,260
were undertaken during the pandemic were

500
00:21:14,990 --> 00:21:13,200
unnecessary and the CDC ignored that

501
00:21:18,049 --> 00:21:15,000
test then that would be what

502
00:21:20,570 --> 00:21:18,059
unscientific it depends on what they say

503
00:21:22,750 --> 00:21:20,580
it is stupid yeah bloody conspiracy

504
00:21:26,029 --> 00:21:22,760
theorist

505
00:21:28,970 --> 00:21:26,039
you remember Albert baller saying the

506
00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:28,980
RFK in questioning certain medications

507
00:21:33,590 --> 00:21:31,200
is questioning science itself Anthony

508
00:21:35,810 --> 00:21:33,600
fauci essentially said in a weird Judge

509
00:21:38,450 --> 00:21:35,820
Dread way I am science let's remind

510
00:21:40,430 --> 00:21:38,460
ourselves what these smug dictators were

511
00:21:42,350 --> 00:21:40,440
telling us just a matter of months ago

512
00:21:44,210 --> 00:21:42,360
and tried to remember this is the world

513
00:21:45,649 --> 00:21:44,220
you're still living in this is the price

514
00:21:47,870 --> 00:21:45,659
you're still paying what is your level

515
00:21:49,970 --> 00:21:47,880
of concern that we're going to discredit

516
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:49,980
Public Health officials to the point of

517
00:21:54,169 --> 00:21:52,320
you know look at Russia I see you go

518
00:21:55,909 --> 00:21:54,179
look at him and I raise you proxy war

519
00:21:57,710 --> 00:21:55,919
with them and also we can say that they

520
00:21:58,730 --> 00:21:57,720
even caused Donald Trump that's not

521
00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:58,740
going to work for long they actually

522
00:22:02,330 --> 00:22:00,960
have a good vaccine and none of their

523
00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:02,340
citizens will take it because they don't

524
00:22:06,470 --> 00:22:04,320
trust their own government it's very

525
00:22:09,230 --> 00:22:06,480
dangerous Chuck because a lot of what

526
00:22:12,289 --> 00:22:09,240
you're seeing as a tax on me quite

527
00:22:14,330 --> 00:22:12,299
frankly are attacks on science oh you

528
00:22:17,210 --> 00:22:14,340
are the embodiment of science are you

529
00:22:19,070 --> 00:22:17,220
what a scientific thing to say that an

530
00:22:20,930 --> 00:22:19,080
entire Dogma could be embodied in an

531
00:22:22,909 --> 00:22:20,940
individual okay that was a very

532
00:22:24,950 --> 00:22:22,919
excellent Russell Brand we could also go

533
00:22:28,510 --> 00:22:24,960
to mainstream media at this point which

534
00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:28,520
has the the science is so overwhelmingly

535
00:22:32,810 --> 00:22:30,720
turned against

536
00:22:35,570 --> 00:22:32,820
what they perpetrated with the jab thing

537
00:22:37,370 --> 00:22:35,580
and how the science was completely the

538
00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:37,380
other way and they turned their back on

539
00:22:43,130 --> 00:22:40,320
it so I'm going to return to Gary Nolan

540
00:22:44,990 --> 00:22:43,140
I can't let him off the hook for what he

541
00:22:47,210 --> 00:22:45,000
says about fauci I think that reveals

542
00:22:49,070 --> 00:22:47,220
more than just about anything else we

543
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:49,080
can hear him say about his background

544
00:22:53,330 --> 00:22:51,600
about Stanford about his grants about

545
00:22:55,669 --> 00:22:53,340
his CIA work

546
00:22:57,890 --> 00:22:55,679
he's carrying the water for somebody

547
00:22:59,990 --> 00:22:57,900
else because no one in their right mind

548
00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:00,000
would would say that at this point about

549
00:23:05,990 --> 00:23:03,360
fauci to me it kind of reveals it all

550
00:23:08,270 --> 00:23:06,000
well I I yeah I don't know if there's a

551
00:23:10,190 --> 00:23:08,280
cause effect there I that may be one way

552
00:23:12,890 --> 00:23:10,200
to interpret what he said but another

553
00:23:15,289 --> 00:23:12,900
way the way I would interpret it would

554
00:23:17,570 --> 00:23:15,299
be that he's he's looking at fauci's

555
00:23:20,210 --> 00:23:17,580
past achievements I do know a

556
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:20,220
well-respected virologist who uh

557
00:23:26,330 --> 00:23:23,760
actually patented the rotavirus and and

558
00:23:28,789 --> 00:23:26,340
I asked him during covid what what he

559
00:23:30,830 --> 00:23:28,799
thought about fauci and all he said was

560
00:23:32,830 --> 00:23:30,840
the man is absolutely brilliant his

561
00:23:34,810 --> 00:23:32,840
contributions to the field of virology

562
00:23:36,770 --> 00:23:34,820
are are

563
00:23:39,710 --> 00:23:36,780
unquestioned that's why he holds the

564
00:23:41,870 --> 00:23:39,720
position so I think the point I think

565
00:23:44,750 --> 00:23:41,880
was related to that and I want to be in

566
00:23:47,210 --> 00:23:44,760
your good side more political and and in

567
00:23:49,549 --> 00:23:47,220
recognition of his great past and

568
00:23:51,289 --> 00:23:49,559
ignoring his Kobe contribution which in

569
00:23:52,850 --> 00:23:51,299
retrospect could have could be and I'm

570
00:23:55,490 --> 00:23:52,860
not one to interpret it it could be a

571
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:55,500
disaster you know it could be you know

572
00:23:59,950 --> 00:23:57,360
but it's more of an emotional disaster

573
00:24:02,270 --> 00:23:59,960
this cause it is left on society are

574
00:24:04,370 --> 00:24:02,280
unimaginable that's you know that's

575
00:24:06,830 --> 00:24:04,380
where I focus I mean let's even realize

576
00:24:08,690 --> 00:24:06,840
that I think what it's done to two

577
00:24:12,590 --> 00:24:08,700
people all over the world

578
00:24:16,250 --> 00:24:12,600
did you read RFK Junior's book on fauci

579
00:24:18,529 --> 00:24:16,260
are you aware of it no okay so it's kind

580
00:24:21,890 --> 00:24:18,539
of the definitive work on his history in

581
00:24:23,210 --> 00:24:21,900
his his history is the opposite of what

582
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:23,220
you just said if you carefully go

583
00:24:27,770 --> 00:24:24,960
through it he's mixed in with the whole

584
00:24:31,630 --> 00:24:27,780
Aids HIV thing in a very unscrupulous

585
00:24:34,730 --> 00:24:31,640
way very very despicable

586
00:24:36,770 --> 00:24:34,740
career in medicine in my opinion in the

587
00:24:39,350 --> 00:24:36,780
in the opinion of many people who've

588
00:24:41,090 --> 00:24:39,360
read that book which by the way was the

589
00:24:44,810 --> 00:24:41,100
number one book on Amazon for the

590
00:24:47,210 --> 00:24:44,820
longest time and got zero reviews got

591
00:24:49,190 --> 00:24:47,220
zero reviews in any mainstream

592
00:24:50,870 --> 00:24:49,200
publication so there's no New York Times

593
00:24:52,310 --> 00:24:50,880
Wall Street they completely ignored it

594
00:24:55,010 --> 00:24:52,320
just like they're trying to ignore him

595
00:24:55,970 --> 00:24:55,020
now as he's running for president point

596
00:24:58,970 --> 00:24:55,980
being

597
00:25:01,310 --> 00:24:58,980
there's 150 pages of notes you know

598
00:25:04,130 --> 00:25:01,320
footnotes in that book to the research

599
00:25:05,870 --> 00:25:04,140
that fauci did which contradicts what

600
00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:05,880
your friend who's just probably going

601
00:25:10,850 --> 00:25:08,000
with the mainstream narrative

602
00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:10,860
unforgivable I think for a serious

603
00:25:17,990 --> 00:25:14,880
academic in virology to be tremendously

604
00:25:21,049 --> 00:25:18,000
grateful for his contributions without

605
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:21,059
looking at him as potentially someone

606
00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:23,760
who's just run the largest scientific

607
00:25:28,430 --> 00:25:26,640
scam in history which at this point

608
00:25:30,769 --> 00:25:28,440
there's no other way the burden of proof

609
00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:30,779
would be on someone to say that the

610
00:25:36,049 --> 00:25:33,120
pandemic was something other than the

611
00:25:39,110 --> 00:25:36,059
largest medical scam in history the

612
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:39,120
burden proof suggests that it is so I'm

613
00:25:41,630 --> 00:25:40,799
open to the possibility that it isn't

614
00:25:43,610 --> 00:25:41,640
but

615
00:25:46,190 --> 00:25:43,620
man you're gonna have to convince me and

616
00:25:48,409 --> 00:25:46,200
if you can't then what does that say

617
00:25:50,690 --> 00:25:48,419
about Gary Nolan that's why I keep

618
00:25:53,450 --> 00:25:50,700
coming back to this because

619
00:25:55,490 --> 00:25:53,460
what does this say about how we're

620
00:25:57,529 --> 00:25:55,500
supposed to understand

621
00:26:00,230 --> 00:25:57,539
one aspect of the spiritually

622
00:26:04,250 --> 00:26:00,240
transformative experiences and that is

623
00:26:06,769 --> 00:26:04,260
the ET if Gary Nolan is the guy who's

624
00:26:08,090 --> 00:26:06,779
partially responsible for controlling

625
00:26:11,090 --> 00:26:08,100
the narrative

626
00:26:13,669 --> 00:26:11,100
then he's controlling your narrative as

627
00:26:15,649 --> 00:26:13,679
well in a way that maybe you haven't

628
00:26:18,409 --> 00:26:15,659
fully considered

629
00:26:21,769 --> 00:26:18,419
well you're you're exactly right he he's

630
00:26:25,250 --> 00:26:21,779
a focal point of public attention as

631
00:26:28,610 --> 00:26:25,260
well as attention by many in Academia so

632
00:26:30,649 --> 00:26:28,620
of course he he can persuade he consults

633
00:26:32,570 --> 00:26:30,659
with the CIA he consults supposedly

634
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:32,580
according what he says with all peoples

635
00:26:37,490 --> 00:26:35,039
in the know as far as your APS are

636
00:26:40,250 --> 00:26:37,500
concerned he does meta material analysis

637
00:26:42,669 --> 00:26:40,260
he is an admitted experiencer people

638
00:26:46,130 --> 00:26:42,679
identify certainly with that who else

639
00:26:48,590 --> 00:26:46,140
within the community other than those

640
00:26:50,810 --> 00:26:48,600
who just don't focus on him and they're

641
00:26:52,250 --> 00:26:50,820
probably most people in society and just

642
00:26:56,269 --> 00:26:52,260
go if they're interested in you

643
00:26:57,950 --> 00:26:56,279
followers on what the dod NASA Etc are

644
00:27:00,049 --> 00:26:57,960
are all doing about it as well as a

645
00:27:02,269 --> 00:27:00,059
Galileo project which Nolan is also

646
00:27:04,909 --> 00:27:02,279
involved in and I credit Abby Lowe being

647
00:27:07,070 --> 00:27:04,919
on the same breath as as to commend them

648
00:27:09,169 --> 00:27:07,080
in in one sense I don't know if they

649
00:27:11,570 --> 00:27:09,179
have anything else up their sleeve but

650
00:27:13,610 --> 00:27:11,580
they're like a John Mack in a sense that

651
00:27:16,010 --> 00:27:13,620
they're they're risking their reputation

652
00:27:17,870 --> 00:27:16,020
their status in some ways and they're

653
00:27:21,230 --> 00:27:17,880
pushing the envelope and you need one

654
00:27:23,810 --> 00:27:21,240
white crow in a sense so or scientist

655
00:27:26,750 --> 00:27:23,820
who does make that incredible Discovery

656
00:27:29,649 --> 00:27:26,760
maybe or or it comes out of Citizen

657
00:27:32,750 --> 00:27:29,659
science you know in terms of the public

658
00:27:35,149 --> 00:27:32,760
generating research on their own with

659
00:27:37,010 --> 00:27:35,159
limited funds to try to unravel this

660
00:27:38,930 --> 00:27:37,020
chess game that we all seem to be

661
00:27:41,390 --> 00:27:38,940
playing I think you're a hell of a lot

662
00:27:43,490 --> 00:27:41,400
closer to unraveling it than these guys

663
00:27:45,470 --> 00:27:43,500
are that's my point I think these guys

664
00:27:48,169 --> 00:27:45,480
Avi lobe if you listen carefully to what

665
00:27:50,149 --> 00:27:48,179
he's saying he doesn't believe in at I

666
00:27:53,090 --> 00:27:50,159
mean not only does he not believe in E.T

667
00:27:55,610 --> 00:27:53,100
he doesn't believe in UFO right so when

668
00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:55,620
you fully process that that's back to

669
00:27:58,610 --> 00:27:57,120
what I was saying like with your stuff

670
00:28:00,289 --> 00:27:58,620
with the spiritually transforming

671
00:28:02,750 --> 00:28:00,299
experiences and then you talk to Sam

672
00:28:04,970 --> 00:28:02,760
Harris and he's like well hey I think

673
00:28:06,430 --> 00:28:04,980
Consciousness is still an illusion you

674
00:28:09,289 --> 00:28:06,440
know I'm going to spin this stuff about

675
00:28:11,510 --> 00:28:09,299
meditation but it's still all brain

676
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:11,520
based Consciousness is an illusion it's

677
00:28:15,350 --> 00:28:13,919
like you really don't have a seat at

678
00:28:17,690 --> 00:28:15,360
this table like I don't know if you're

679
00:28:19,070 --> 00:28:17,700
just making that stuff up or not but you

680
00:28:22,190 --> 00:28:19,080
really don't have a seat at that table

681
00:28:23,690 --> 00:28:22,200
Avi lobe when he says UFOs hey if we

682
00:28:26,510 --> 00:28:23,700
ever run across to them they might be

683
00:28:29,090 --> 00:28:26,520
real it's like bro if we ever run across

684
00:28:32,570 --> 00:28:29,100
them you are somehow you you don't

685
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:32,580
really have a seat at the table you on

686
00:28:37,250 --> 00:28:34,559
the other hand my friend is who I'm

687
00:28:39,289 --> 00:28:37,260
turning to in this discussion because

688
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:39,299
you definitely got a seat on the table

689
00:28:46,490 --> 00:28:43,440
you are way way ahead of the curve by

690
00:28:48,289 --> 00:28:46,500
virtue of this spiritually transformed

691
00:28:52,430 --> 00:28:48,299
experiences across the board where you

692
00:28:54,830 --> 00:28:52,440
include this UAP UFO experience and

693
00:28:56,330 --> 00:28:54,840
quotes like this from that article as

694
00:28:58,370 --> 00:28:56,340
with any experience that's filtered

695
00:29:01,490 --> 00:28:58,380
through our layers of culture language

696
00:29:03,950 --> 00:29:01,500
and individuality stees that is

697
00:29:05,930 --> 00:29:03,960
spiritually transformed experiences also

698
00:29:09,730 --> 00:29:05,940
share several similarities themes and

699
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:09,740
features man we could do a whole hour

700
00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:13,440
just on that because it's so deep that

701
00:29:18,769 --> 00:29:16,080
is not where Gary Nolan is is coming

702
00:29:22,130 --> 00:29:18,779
from Gary Nolan is trying to misdirect

703
00:29:24,529 --> 00:29:22,140
us away from that Avi Loeb he's trying

704
00:29:26,810 --> 00:29:24,539
to misdirect us by saying well none of

705
00:29:29,330 --> 00:29:26,820
that stuff could possibly even be on the

706
00:29:30,950 --> 00:29:29,340
table because there's no such thing as

707
00:29:33,289 --> 00:29:30,960
Consciousness Consciousness is an

708
00:29:36,289 --> 00:29:33,299
illusion so here's where I'm going to

709
00:29:40,190 --> 00:29:36,299
take you to this guy Ray Hernandez

710
00:29:43,070 --> 00:29:40,200
Beyond UFOs a project to try and wrap

711
00:29:45,230 --> 00:29:43,080
our arms around those experiences and a

712
00:29:47,269 --> 00:29:45,240
project that you were directly involved

713
00:29:50,149 --> 00:29:47,279
in you were called to be a part of

714
00:29:52,510 --> 00:29:50,159
because you do have not only the

715
00:29:56,330 --> 00:29:52,520
academic credentials but you have the

716
00:29:59,570 --> 00:29:56,340
academic muscle to know how to collect

717
00:30:01,669 --> 00:29:59,580
data tell us about that project because

718
00:30:03,889 --> 00:30:01,679
I think it relates more to

719
00:30:07,250 --> 00:30:03,899
the real story

720
00:30:09,049 --> 00:30:07,260
of what's going on behind Gary Nolan and

721
00:30:10,789 --> 00:30:09,059
the rest of these guys than the fake

722
00:30:13,130 --> 00:30:10,799
story so tell me what was this project

723
00:30:15,169 --> 00:30:13,140
the doctor argumentative Research

724
00:30:18,769 --> 00:30:15,179
Foundation for Extraordinary experiences

725
00:30:20,510 --> 00:30:18,779
uh it was developed by uh and certainly

726
00:30:22,490 --> 00:30:20,520
the sixth person walked on the moon

727
00:30:25,789 --> 00:30:22,500
founder of The Institute of phonetic

728
00:30:28,010 --> 00:30:25,799
Sciences great Dr Edgar Mitchell over

729
00:30:31,010 --> 00:30:28,020
time Ray Hernandez and a few others

730
00:30:33,230 --> 00:30:31,020
developed the the study and I came on

731
00:30:36,289 --> 00:30:33,240
board about a year or two in progress

732
00:30:38,570 --> 00:30:36,299
after I wrote my UFO book they heard me

733
00:30:41,269 --> 00:30:38,580
on some podcasts and and invited me to

734
00:30:42,590 --> 00:30:41,279
join and I was thrilled I was a kid in a

735
00:30:45,049 --> 00:30:42,600
candy store I was interested always

736
00:30:47,269 --> 00:30:45,059
interested in UFOs and I was hosted

737
00:30:48,889 --> 00:30:47,279
interested in research and I this is a

738
00:30:51,110 --> 00:30:48,899
tremendous opportunity for me to

739
00:30:53,330 --> 00:30:51,120
interact with many scientists and and

740
00:30:55,490 --> 00:30:53,340
eventually I I told them I'm going to

741
00:30:57,110 --> 00:30:55,500
get this published and I did in the

742
00:30:59,210 --> 00:30:57,120
Journal of scientific exploration I

743
00:31:01,909 --> 00:30:59,220
wrote it up with Russ calpon primarily

744
00:31:04,909 --> 00:31:01,919
Ray Hernandez was also a co-author and

745
00:31:06,649 --> 00:31:04,919
without roscal pongs up I this is

746
00:31:09,049 --> 00:31:06,659
statistical analysis it wouldn't have

747
00:31:11,090 --> 00:31:09,059
been been accepted but so referee

748
00:31:13,130 --> 00:31:11,100
Journal that I'm proud about it because

749
00:31:17,269 --> 00:31:13,140
it does say something quite significant

750
00:31:20,990 --> 00:31:17,279
again it's not it's not accepted by NASA

751
00:31:22,789 --> 00:31:21,000
the dod Arrow Etc because it's not nuts

752
00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:22,799
and bolts we're talking about spiritual

753
00:31:27,049 --> 00:31:24,720
transformative experiences qualitative

754
00:31:29,210 --> 00:31:27,059
subjective experiences and we did a

755
00:31:31,310 --> 00:31:29,220
survey of over 3 200 individuals many

756
00:31:32,990 --> 00:31:31,320
people are very familiar with that and

757
00:31:34,970 --> 00:31:33,000
the results you know you know I'm I'm

758
00:31:37,389 --> 00:31:34,980
not going to go into great details about

759
00:31:40,730 --> 00:31:37,399
it but we there are many limitations

760
00:31:43,010 --> 00:31:40,740
obviously but the fact that some 3 200

761
00:31:45,830 --> 00:31:43,020
people are in it you know it kind of

762
00:31:49,250 --> 00:31:45,840
weeds out the the people who you can't

763
00:31:51,049 --> 00:31:49,260
trust or misinforming us purposely or or

764
00:31:53,090 --> 00:31:51,059
schizophrenic for instance and are

765
00:31:55,730 --> 00:31:53,100
making it up for whatever reason there's

766
00:31:58,669 --> 00:31:55,740
a secondary gain nevertheless a large

767
00:32:01,070 --> 00:31:58,679
sample size that was controlled as best

768
00:32:03,230 --> 00:32:01,080
as possible statistically in terms of

769
00:32:05,870 --> 00:32:03,240
validity and right reliability and again

770
00:32:07,850 --> 00:32:05,880
I think Russ scalp on for that we came

771
00:32:10,490 --> 00:32:07,860
up with some interesting data which has

772
00:32:12,409 --> 00:32:10,500
been supported by subsequent Studies by

773
00:32:14,750 --> 00:32:12,419
Kathleen Martin at the experience of

774
00:32:17,810 --> 00:32:14,760
research team at mufon and a few others

775
00:32:20,450 --> 00:32:17,820
but what we found was that the the

776
00:32:22,190 --> 00:32:20,460
majority again approximately 80 85

777
00:32:24,830 --> 00:32:22,200
percent regarded as a positive

778
00:32:27,289 --> 00:32:24,840
interaction the more times I interacted

779
00:32:29,210 --> 00:32:27,299
with the UAP either physical or

780
00:32:32,630 --> 00:32:29,220
non-physical either there's an abductee

781
00:32:34,490 --> 00:32:32,640
or a contactee they regarded it as a

782
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:34,500
positive experience especially if those

783
00:32:37,850 --> 00:32:36,240
interactions were more frequent in

784
00:32:40,850 --> 00:32:37,860
nature and we saw an increase in

785
00:32:42,830 --> 00:32:40,860
positivity which again was statistically

786
00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:42,840
derived in terms of four specific

787
00:32:48,710 --> 00:32:46,320
criteria that were weighted most heavily

788
00:32:52,370 --> 00:32:48,720
in terms of positivity criteria so again

789
00:32:55,070 --> 00:32:52,380
it was was finely tuned analytically and

790
00:32:57,889 --> 00:32:55,080
using that criteria we we saw an

791
00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:57,899
increase in positivity with increases in

792
00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:00,240
interactions whatever that meant to them

793
00:33:05,570 --> 00:33:02,640
entering another Matrix an alternate

794
00:33:07,610 --> 00:33:05,580
realm a non-nosely environment or a

795
00:33:10,010 --> 00:33:07,620
spacecraft lying on a table being

796
00:33:12,049 --> 00:33:10,020
subjected to experimental paradigms

797
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:12,059
given a hybrid we know the whole story

798
00:33:18,289 --> 00:33:15,840
the point is initially of course it's

799
00:33:20,049 --> 00:33:18,299
horrific let's not let's not discount

800
00:33:23,389 --> 00:33:20,059
that hold on before you go horrific

801
00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:23,399
because I want to go horrific too but I

802
00:33:27,649 --> 00:33:25,679
want to pause and and let people know

803
00:33:31,310 --> 00:33:27,659
why I was kind of trying to Rally you up

804
00:33:34,490 --> 00:33:31,320
a little bit is because of this like you

805
00:33:38,029 --> 00:33:34,500
got the goods here Bob you've gone and

806
00:33:39,769 --> 00:33:38,039
done the freaking work and like the last

807
00:33:41,690 --> 00:33:39,779
time you were on and I tried to push you

808
00:33:43,610 --> 00:33:41,700
on some of the data and you push right

809
00:33:45,529 --> 00:33:43,620
back say no I know how to do this kind

810
00:33:49,310 --> 00:33:45,539
of research I know how to scientifically

811
00:33:51,470 --> 00:33:49,320
collect data in a scientific survey and

812
00:33:53,149 --> 00:33:51,480
analyze it statistically and get it

813
00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:53,159
published in a peer-reviewed journal and

814
00:33:57,350 --> 00:33:55,440
that still means something man it does

815
00:34:00,649 --> 00:33:57,360
if it's done correctly and their peers

816
00:34:03,409 --> 00:34:00,659
are really looking at it and that lends

817
00:34:06,830 --> 00:34:03,419
tremendous credibility to what you're

818
00:34:08,450 --> 00:34:06,840
saying when I pull up that edge article

819
00:34:11,149 --> 00:34:08,460
and spiritually transformative

820
00:34:14,329 --> 00:34:11,159
experiences now people know what I mean

821
00:34:15,829 --> 00:34:14,339
Bob knows what he's talking about with

822
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:15,839
this particular spiritually

823
00:34:21,829 --> 00:34:18,960
transformative experience which was the

824
00:34:23,389 --> 00:34:21,839
ET encounter and how do we know that's a

825
00:34:26,030 --> 00:34:23,399
spiritually transformative experience

826
00:34:27,230 --> 00:34:26,040
because we ask people they say I had

827
00:34:31,010 --> 00:34:27,240
this experience that no spiritually

828
00:34:34,070 --> 00:34:31,020
transformative that makes you more of an

829
00:34:36,589 --> 00:34:34,080
authority on how these spiritually

830
00:34:39,169 --> 00:34:36,599
transformative experiences work across

831
00:34:41,990 --> 00:34:39,179
the board across the board being ndes

832
00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:42,000
obes like we're saying stressman and you

833
00:34:46,970 --> 00:34:44,399
just take DMT kind of thing that

834
00:34:49,790 --> 00:34:46,980
conversation they are trying to pull us

835
00:34:52,010 --> 00:34:49,800
miles away from that conversation Gary

836
00:34:54,169 --> 00:34:52,020
Nolan I would suggest just like Lou

837
00:34:56,570 --> 00:34:54,179
Alexander before him who was carrying

838
00:34:58,609 --> 00:34:56,580
the you know go watch the videos on Lou

839
00:35:00,530 --> 00:34:58,619
Elizondo from a year ago he's off the

840
00:35:02,210 --> 00:35:00,540
stage right now because he somehow

841
00:35:04,849 --> 00:35:02,220
discredited himself but his thing was

842
00:35:07,190 --> 00:35:04,859
like man it's about protecting our

843
00:35:08,690 --> 00:35:07,200
airspace and you know hey if it's up

844
00:35:11,150 --> 00:35:08,700
there and it's a threat and this and

845
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:11,160
that so he had a message he delivered

846
00:35:15,710 --> 00:35:13,200
that good before that it was Tom Delong

847
00:35:18,890 --> 00:35:15,720
you know hey man you know I'm I'm the

848
00:35:21,050 --> 00:35:18,900
cool generation blink 182. here's my

849
00:35:23,270 --> 00:35:21,060
message carrying the water I would

850
00:35:26,329 --> 00:35:23,280
suggest that that's the only way to view

851
00:35:28,550 --> 00:35:26,339
uh Gary Nolan and Avi Loeb is they're

852
00:35:32,569 --> 00:35:28,560
just carrying the water with another

853
00:35:34,609 --> 00:35:32,579
message you my friend are not you're at

854
00:35:36,770 --> 00:35:34,619
the next level of trying to put this

855
00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:36,780
together and the first step is to say

856
00:35:42,470 --> 00:35:39,920
there is an experience

857
00:35:45,530 --> 00:35:42,480
associated with this

858
00:35:49,430 --> 00:35:45,540
and as you have written about and

859
00:35:52,490 --> 00:35:49,440
researched about so fantastically it is

860
00:35:55,030 --> 00:35:52,500
the most profound experience we can

861
00:35:57,589 --> 00:35:55,040
imagine it is a spiritually

862
00:36:00,050 --> 00:35:57,599
transformative experience if we look at

863
00:36:02,270 --> 00:36:00,060
cultures if we look at time these are

864
00:36:04,430 --> 00:36:02,280
the things we value most are these

865
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:04,440
experiences that scientists would say or

866
00:36:09,530 --> 00:36:06,480
spiritually transform it now you're

867
00:36:11,089 --> 00:36:09,540
saying that is at the core of all this

868
00:36:13,250 --> 00:36:11,099
stuff that these guys are talking about

869
00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:13,260
do you get where I'm going to get why

870
00:36:15,349 --> 00:36:14,640
I'm kind of poking you a little bit on

871
00:36:18,050 --> 00:36:15,359
that

872
00:36:20,089 --> 00:36:18,060
uh yeah there's no question and thank

873
00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:20,099
you for your kind words as an authority

874
00:36:23,569 --> 00:36:21,839
you know I may be familiar a little bit

875
00:36:25,310 --> 00:36:23,579
with the with the literature trying to

876
00:36:27,530 --> 00:36:25,320
put the pieces together and you don't

877
00:36:30,349 --> 00:36:27,540
know whether or not you should include

878
00:36:32,510 --> 00:36:30,359
as as objective evidence as that's not

879
00:36:34,730 --> 00:36:32,520
biased of course what's the value

880
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:34,740
validity of the information that you

881
00:36:38,150 --> 00:36:36,720
hear when you follow G and Beyond and

882
00:36:40,370 --> 00:36:38,160
that's why and you allude to it

883
00:36:42,290 --> 00:36:40,380
beautifully the the data that's

884
00:36:45,950 --> 00:36:42,300
qualitative in nature that we generated

885
00:36:49,010 --> 00:36:45,960
in survey designs it lacks in terms of

886
00:36:50,990 --> 00:36:49,020
what hardcore materialists regard as as

887
00:36:53,750 --> 00:36:51,000
reflections of the ultimate truth

888
00:36:56,030 --> 00:36:53,760
despite the fact that that people who

889
00:36:58,190 --> 00:36:56,040
who undergo these things are transformed

890
00:37:00,109 --> 00:36:58,200
and in so dramatic ways how do you

891
00:37:02,390 --> 00:37:00,119
explain the fact that atheists now

892
00:37:03,950 --> 00:37:02,400
believe in Supreme Beings after having

893
00:37:06,770 --> 00:37:03,960
these spiritual transformative

894
00:37:09,589 --> 00:37:06,780
experiences or dramatically change their

895
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:09,599
opinions on on major aspects of

896
00:37:15,490 --> 00:37:13,200
philosophical and personal life to me

897
00:37:18,109 --> 00:37:15,500
you know at least it can be argued

898
00:37:21,290 --> 00:37:18,119
metaphysically philosophically which I'm

899
00:37:24,530 --> 00:37:21,300
not but you can regard that as being the

900
00:37:27,050 --> 00:37:24,540
Ultimate Reality truth if it if it makes

901
00:37:30,410 --> 00:37:27,060
one more ecologically sensitive and

902
00:37:33,410 --> 00:37:30,420
that's maybe a big issue uh one of the

903
00:37:35,329 --> 00:37:33,420
pieces that I think you are aware of and

904
00:37:37,490 --> 00:37:35,339
and certainly many others are when

905
00:37:39,650 --> 00:37:37,500
people have these kind of experiences it

906
00:37:41,569 --> 00:37:39,660
seems like of course they're not the

907
00:37:43,490 --> 00:37:41,579
center of the universe anymore they

908
00:37:45,470 --> 00:37:43,500
become like a particle of the wave if

909
00:37:47,150 --> 00:37:45,480
you want to go into that wave particle

910
00:37:50,270 --> 00:37:47,160
duality thing I mean you really go in

911
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:50,280
that direction and also make the analogy

912
00:37:55,550 --> 00:37:52,800
between the subjective experience and

913
00:37:57,829 --> 00:37:55,560
and true reality because the unit of

914
00:37:59,569 --> 00:37:57,839
experience that underlies the spiritual

915
00:38:03,170 --> 00:37:59,579
transformative experience that Unity

916
00:38:05,510 --> 00:38:03,180
where I feel interrelated with with the

917
00:38:07,250 --> 00:38:05,520
world reality the environment like I

918
00:38:10,130 --> 00:38:07,260
never had before and it feels beautiful

919
00:38:13,010 --> 00:38:10,140
normal natural peaceful loving all that

920
00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:13,020
glittering gold New Age stuff but it's

921
00:38:16,370 --> 00:38:14,880
but it's there let me interject

922
00:38:19,069 --> 00:38:16,380
something here sure because I think

923
00:38:20,810 --> 00:38:19,079
you're doing it in more of a way than

924
00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:20,820
you might even realize the thing I

925
00:38:27,130 --> 00:38:23,520
always point out is so the survey you

926
00:38:29,990 --> 00:38:27,140
guys do at free and you publish is about

927
00:38:33,470 --> 00:38:30,000
experience in a way that we generally

928
00:38:36,290 --> 00:38:33,480
accept in science right so if someone is

929
00:38:39,410 --> 00:38:36,300
experienced depression we accept that

930
00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:39,420
they are experiencing depression if

931
00:38:44,990 --> 00:38:42,000
someone is experiencing grief we accept

932
00:38:47,210 --> 00:38:45,000
that they are experiencing grief we

933
00:38:49,370 --> 00:38:47,220
don't double clutch on that we don't say

934
00:38:51,890 --> 00:38:49,380
what is the physics you know how does it

935
00:38:54,349 --> 00:38:51,900
relate down to quantum physics kind of

936
00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:54,359
thing and we don't just stop there we

937
00:38:58,190 --> 00:38:56,640
say we can measure that that's what

938
00:39:00,170 --> 00:38:58,200
you're bringing to it it's not like

939
00:39:02,390 --> 00:39:00,180
you're off in your own kind of thing oh

940
00:39:05,990 --> 00:39:02,400
it's all anecdotal you are applying

941
00:39:08,690 --> 00:39:06,000
rather well understood scientific

942
00:39:10,550 --> 00:39:08,700
principles to experience and you're just

943
00:39:12,170 --> 00:39:10,560
applying them in an area that no one

944
00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:12,180
ever wanted to apply it to because it

945
00:39:16,190 --> 00:39:13,920
was the third rail and you're going to

946
00:39:18,589 --> 00:39:16,200
get electrocuted on your career you're

947
00:39:22,670 --> 00:39:18,599
exactly right with respect to how we

948
00:39:24,890 --> 00:39:22,680
rely on surveys in order to inform our

949
00:39:26,270 --> 00:39:24,900
medical community how severe the pain is

950
00:39:29,450 --> 00:39:26,280
how severe the depression is you're

951
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:29,460
exactly right and often often tailored

952
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:32,640
appropriate doses of a specific drug to

953
00:39:38,510 --> 00:39:35,760
to uh minimize the severity of that

954
00:39:41,150 --> 00:39:38,520
particular symptom largely survey based

955
00:39:42,950 --> 00:39:41,160
largely anecdotal how else can a

956
00:39:45,050 --> 00:39:42,960
psychologist psychiatrist medical

957
00:39:47,930 --> 00:39:45,060
physician get an understanding of your

958
00:39:50,810 --> 00:39:47,940
physical condition and to understand how

959
00:39:53,390 --> 00:39:50,820
you express it yet yet you're exactly

960
00:39:56,270 --> 00:39:53,400
right yet when when you see survey

961
00:39:58,250 --> 00:39:56,280
results as it relates to the free survey

962
00:40:00,530 --> 00:39:58,260
or other surveys and that's all they are

963
00:40:04,430 --> 00:40:00,540
in spiritual transformative experience

964
00:40:07,730 --> 00:40:04,440
related uh research all all surveys

965
00:40:09,829 --> 00:40:07,740
except for the DMT which is survey in

966
00:40:12,650 --> 00:40:09,839
terms of understanding the semantic

967
00:40:15,470 --> 00:40:12,660
systematic content of the individual's

968
00:40:18,170 --> 00:40:15,480
experience under the DMT or psilocybin

969
00:40:20,690 --> 00:40:18,180
but also correlating that with some

970
00:40:23,210 --> 00:40:20,700
underlying EEG neurophysiological

971
00:40:24,829 --> 00:40:23,220
patterns whatever that may mean not and

972
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:24,839
that's not an answer other than there's

973
00:40:29,089 --> 00:40:26,400
major changes going on there's no

974
00:40:30,770 --> 00:40:29,099
question about it you know is is it DMT

975
00:40:32,930 --> 00:40:30,780
in the penis when we can only we could

976
00:40:34,849 --> 00:40:32,940
only throw these things out and suspect

977
00:40:37,310 --> 00:40:34,859
let me just recap what you're saying

978
00:40:39,710 --> 00:40:37,320
because it's important is so we go look

979
00:40:42,170 --> 00:40:39,720
at Strassman Spirit Molecule and we

980
00:40:46,210 --> 00:40:42,180
repeat it and we mix in the DMT

981
00:40:49,190 --> 00:40:46,220
component I would say almost as a way of

982
00:40:51,950 --> 00:40:49,200
apologizing for the fact that what all

983
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:51,960
that research is really about is the

984
00:40:55,550 --> 00:40:54,000
qualitative the anecdotal that's what

985
00:40:57,710 --> 00:40:55,560
it's all about because if you can look

986
00:40:59,210 --> 00:40:57,720
at the Ayahuasca experience right and

987
00:41:00,589 --> 00:40:59,220
you go down to hey I was down to Peru

988
00:41:02,630 --> 00:41:00,599
and the same thing I'm taking

989
00:41:04,190 --> 00:41:02,640
stressman's work and they had the DMT

990
00:41:06,109 --> 00:41:04,200
and down there they gave the DMT and

991
00:41:08,030 --> 00:41:06,119
then one person goes well you know as a

992
00:41:10,490 --> 00:41:08,040
matter of fact I didn't drink

993
00:41:12,290 --> 00:41:10,500
they just came along and they just moved

994
00:41:16,430 --> 00:41:12,300
the feather and I had the same

995
00:41:19,550 --> 00:41:16,440
experience and now you go whoa Strassman

996
00:41:21,650 --> 00:41:19,560
has to push the materialistic and I'm

997
00:41:24,410 --> 00:41:21,660
not saying he's pushing it but the way

998
00:41:27,890 --> 00:41:24,420
that gets interpreted is it's about the

999
00:41:30,710 --> 00:41:27,900
DMT versus if we look more broadly at

1000
00:41:32,870 --> 00:41:30,720
your work I think your work points us to

1001
00:41:34,730 --> 00:41:32,880
what's really going on is there's

1002
00:41:37,190 --> 00:41:34,740
something called a spiritually

1003
00:41:39,710 --> 00:41:37,200
transformative experience and we're not

1004
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:39,720
exactly sure what the correlation is

1005
00:41:46,609 --> 00:41:43,920
between that and this biological robot

1006
00:41:49,250 --> 00:41:46,619
part of us and that's the heart of the

1007
00:41:52,190 --> 00:41:49,260
current debate there's no way to get an

1008
00:41:54,710 --> 00:41:52,200
objective measure one having an nde it's

1009
00:41:58,190 --> 00:41:54,720
impossible because it's spontaneous in

1010
00:42:01,069 --> 00:41:58,200
nature except the one in which it can

1011
00:42:03,890 --> 00:42:01,079
control here here's some psilocybin DMT

1012
00:42:07,250 --> 00:42:03,900
at an appropriate dose and you get some

1013
00:42:09,349 --> 00:42:07,260
incredible things happening the value of

1014
00:42:11,329 --> 00:42:09,359
psychedelics is it's significant in

1015
00:42:13,130 --> 00:42:11,339
terms of those who can play around with

1016
00:42:15,230 --> 00:42:13,140
it and try to make sense of something

1017
00:42:17,690 --> 00:42:15,240
that changes their personality at the

1018
00:42:20,510 --> 00:42:17,700
same time you can get some hard data so

1019
00:42:22,430 --> 00:42:20,520
it pleases the materialists and and they

1020
00:42:25,069 --> 00:42:22,440
go in that direction in terms of an

1021
00:42:28,190 --> 00:42:25,079
explanation and the question is do you

1022
00:42:31,250 --> 00:42:28,200
interpret hallucinations as real events

1023
00:42:33,349 --> 00:42:31,260
no they don't they they regard these

1024
00:42:35,569 --> 00:42:33,359
reports that's hallucinatory in nature

1025
00:42:37,730 --> 00:42:35,579
and not evidence of an alternate reality

1026
00:42:40,190 --> 00:42:37,740
whereas another person would would look

1027
00:42:42,730 --> 00:42:40,200
at it in the rehearse so how do you

1028
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:42,740
relate to subjective experience of these

1029
00:42:47,810 --> 00:42:45,119
transpersonal events and we know the

1030
00:42:49,790 --> 00:42:47,820
statistics just to remind some people 70

1031
00:42:52,550 --> 00:42:49,800
for instance of people who have a native

1032
00:42:55,670 --> 00:42:52,560
experience you know Alex have a divorce

1033
00:42:57,410 --> 00:42:55,680
within seven years it's remarkable much

1034
00:42:59,809 --> 00:42:57,420
higher than expected but we see this

1035
00:43:01,849 --> 00:42:59,819
with sces we need more data we're

1036
00:43:03,710 --> 00:43:01,859
scratching the surface not only how it

1037
00:43:06,770 --> 00:43:03,720
affects the person involved the

1038
00:43:09,349 --> 00:43:06,780
experiencer but the family members first

1039
00:43:12,530 --> 00:43:09,359
second third person and that's where we

1040
00:43:14,990 --> 00:43:12,540
need to go there's some thematic the

1041
00:43:17,809 --> 00:43:15,000
semantic content of what the meaning

1042
00:43:20,510 --> 00:43:17,819
meaning was of that event look for these

1043
00:43:23,450 --> 00:43:20,520
comparisons and and it's going to take a

1044
00:43:28,250 --> 00:43:23,460
long time before science adopts this as

1045
00:43:31,370 --> 00:43:28,260
a true valid reflection of reality

1046
00:43:33,530 --> 00:43:31,380
you are in the middle of creating this

1047
00:43:35,750 --> 00:43:33,540
documentary which you think is going to

1048
00:43:37,309 --> 00:43:35,760
move the ball forward a little bit in

1049
00:43:38,690 --> 00:43:37,319
terms of the issues that you're just

1050
00:43:40,309 --> 00:43:38,700
talking about in terms of Consciousness

1051
00:43:42,470 --> 00:43:40,319
it's called the Consciousness Connection

1052
00:43:43,970 --> 00:43:42,480
let me play a little bit of just the end

1053
00:43:45,650 --> 00:43:43,980
of the trailer and then we'll talk about

1054
00:43:48,170 --> 00:43:45,660
it

1055
00:43:50,809 --> 00:43:48,180
will we break through the stigma of this

1056
00:43:54,109 --> 00:43:50,819
science of the extraordinary and

1057
00:43:55,950 --> 00:43:54,119
challenge the true nature of reality

1058
00:43:59,150 --> 00:43:55,960
in the Consciousness Connection

1059
00:44:01,670 --> 00:43:59,160
[Music]

1060
00:44:03,890 --> 00:44:01,680
because we're putting your energy and

1061
00:44:06,650 --> 00:44:03,900
it's where we should be putting our

1062
00:44:08,750 --> 00:44:06,660
passion and our energy and The Meta

1063
00:44:11,150 --> 00:44:08,760
materials and the anti-gravitational

1064
00:44:14,569 --> 00:44:11,160
stuff I'm not saying that's not a path

1065
00:44:17,270 --> 00:44:14,579
but in terms of a more direct path we

1066
00:44:20,270 --> 00:44:17,280
have to go with the experience it is the

1067
00:44:22,370 --> 00:44:20,280
closest thing we have to potentially

1068
00:44:26,210 --> 00:44:22,380
finding out the meaning of this it's the

1069
00:44:28,670 --> 00:44:26,220
experience and that's where you are

1070
00:44:30,050 --> 00:44:28,680
it is a passion it's an energy my

1071
00:44:32,210 --> 00:44:30,060
experiences I mentioned earlier

1072
00:44:34,670 --> 00:44:32,220
certainly fueled that it gave me the

1073
00:44:36,770 --> 00:44:34,680
determination that little hint that

1074
00:44:39,290 --> 00:44:36,780
there likely is something more my

1075
00:44:41,569 --> 00:44:39,300
experiences told me something that

1076
00:44:43,490 --> 00:44:41,579
beyond belief never thought I could

1077
00:44:45,230 --> 00:44:43,500
experience what I did so I'm trying to

1078
00:44:47,210 --> 00:44:45,240
make sense of it but I'm making the

1079
00:44:50,270 --> 00:44:47,220
documentary because I'm trying to find

1080
00:44:53,030 --> 00:44:50,280
the pieces and keep researchers who look

1081
00:44:55,309 --> 00:44:53,040
at human to human interaction on an

1082
00:44:57,589 --> 00:44:55,319
invisible pathway or existence of

1083
00:45:00,530 --> 00:44:57,599
perception human to physical system

1084
00:45:01,910 --> 00:45:00,540
interaction psychokinesis a near-death

1085
00:45:03,770 --> 00:45:01,920
experiences certainly we're going to be

1086
00:45:05,690 --> 00:45:03,780
filming at the International Association

1087
00:45:08,750 --> 00:45:05,700
for near death studies I went to Monroe

1088
00:45:10,849 --> 00:45:08,760
Institute on and on ions and yes Gary

1089
00:45:14,210 --> 00:45:10,859
Nolan let's you know let's bring that

1090
00:45:16,250 --> 00:45:14,220
into UFO not not everything you're very

1091
00:45:18,290 --> 00:45:16,260
selective what he's doing you have a

1092
00:45:21,290 --> 00:45:18,300
top-notch academic Edition like many

1093
00:45:23,450 --> 00:45:21,300
others Dean Rayden Evan Alexander and

1094
00:45:25,730 --> 00:45:23,460
unfortunately as a producer you know I'm

1095
00:45:27,890 --> 00:45:25,740
out there saying we need funding for

1096
00:45:29,930 --> 00:45:27,900
travel probably early to get from here

1097
00:45:33,290 --> 00:45:29,940
to there to to make these kinds of

1098
00:45:35,870 --> 00:45:33,300
interviews but more than that Alex and

1099
00:45:38,210 --> 00:45:35,880
you mentioned that the experiencer we do

1100
00:45:40,849 --> 00:45:38,220
have experiences near the people who've

1101
00:45:43,790 --> 00:45:40,859
had many of these and that's the value

1102
00:45:48,109 --> 00:45:43,800
of the film okay Bob so last question

1103
00:45:51,170 --> 00:45:48,119
then what concerns do you have about the

1104
00:45:53,329 --> 00:45:51,180
signal to noise ratio if one does take

1105
00:45:55,250 --> 00:45:53,339
as you're talking about the big tent

1106
00:45:58,309 --> 00:45:55,260
approach which I think is awesome talk

1107
00:45:59,470 --> 00:45:58,319
to a lot of different people but tying

1108
00:46:01,910 --> 00:45:59,480
it back to the misinformation

1109
00:46:04,970 --> 00:46:01,920
disinformation how do you balance that

1110
00:46:07,430 --> 00:46:04,980
oh very very careful I will do my very

1111
00:46:09,770 --> 00:46:07,440
best to make sure that that's not the

1112
00:46:11,690 --> 00:46:09,780
case because the intent and I can't be

1113
00:46:13,490 --> 00:46:11,700
perfect certainly we're all moral human

1114
00:46:16,550 --> 00:46:13,500
and make those errors of inductive

1115
00:46:19,790 --> 00:46:16,560
reasoning deception abounds and it

1116
00:46:22,730 --> 00:46:19,800
certainly exists in all media forms and

1117
00:46:24,770 --> 00:46:22,740
I can held hostage to that so I I and

1118
00:46:26,690 --> 00:46:24,780
Dave and Betty and Wilson Hawthorne that

1119
00:46:29,210 --> 00:46:26,700
Michael produces we talk talked about

1120
00:46:33,470 --> 00:46:29,220
that and that's why we don't want to

1121
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:33,480
include UFOs and we debated that and you

1122
00:46:38,270 --> 00:46:35,760
know getting Gary Nolan on board is

1123
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:38,280
wonderful but let's focus on other stuff

1124
00:46:42,170 --> 00:46:40,079
I don't want to really go there I don't

1125
00:46:44,210 --> 00:46:42,180
want to go there we talked about Chris

1126
00:46:45,650 --> 00:46:44,220
Bledsoe let's get some orbs you know and

1127
00:46:47,990 --> 00:46:45,660
all that jazz he's doing another

1128
00:46:50,150 --> 00:46:48,000
documentary and he can't and he doesn't

1129
00:46:52,670 --> 00:46:50,160
even address that you can't you can't do

1130
00:46:54,650 --> 00:46:52,680
it before he got the documentary come on

1131
00:46:57,650 --> 00:46:54,660
come on up spend the night you know take

1132
00:47:00,290 --> 00:46:57,660
all the videos you want he's wonderful I

1133
00:47:01,730 --> 00:47:00,300
have great great respect for him uh cias

1134
00:47:04,370 --> 00:47:01,740
involved

1135
00:47:06,349 --> 00:47:04,380
um uh John Alexander I know I spoke with

1136
00:47:08,089 --> 00:47:06,359
him and he's been up there and he

1137
00:47:10,130 --> 00:47:08,099
believes that I may have messages before

1138
00:47:12,650 --> 00:47:10,140
that that Chris Bledsoe is the one

1139
00:47:13,790 --> 00:47:12,660
responsible he's the one that calls down

1140
00:47:16,910 --> 00:47:13,800
these elect well that's his

1141
00:47:20,089 --> 00:47:16,920
interpretation but the CIA is always a

1142
00:47:22,370 --> 00:47:20,099
CIA retired or not and they will gather

1143
00:47:24,230 --> 00:47:22,380
information among the citizenry and uh

1144
00:47:25,370 --> 00:47:24,240
let's see what they're up to and that's

1145
00:47:28,309 --> 00:47:25,380
probably the best source of information

1146
00:47:29,930 --> 00:47:28,319
they can get so that's what that's their

1147
00:47:32,990 --> 00:47:29,940
discipline when they do it very well

1148
00:47:34,849 --> 00:47:33,000
even um even getting up front and closer

1149
00:47:36,650 --> 00:47:34,859
or establishing personal relationships

1150
00:47:38,990 --> 00:47:36,660
with people who are experiences to try

1151
00:47:42,050 --> 00:47:39,000
to extract information and deceiving

1152
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:42,060
them deceiving them

1153
00:47:47,930 --> 00:47:46,319
um to do so gaining their trust but also

1154
00:47:49,970 --> 00:47:47,940
taking their brain you know call it

1155
00:47:51,950 --> 00:47:49,980
brain hacking whatever you want but

1156
00:47:53,690 --> 00:47:51,960
there's an ulterior motive they're not

1157
00:47:55,970 --> 00:47:53,700
mean and vicious but they're deceptive

1158
00:47:59,530 --> 00:47:55,980
you know they're deceptive people they

1159
00:48:02,569 --> 00:47:59,540
could be being patients too but yeah

1160
00:48:04,370 --> 00:48:02,579
that's unethical it's unethical you know

1161
00:48:06,230 --> 00:48:04,380
to be that way with another human being

1162
00:48:08,809 --> 00:48:06,240
as far as I'm concerned you know Mission

1163
00:48:10,609 --> 00:48:08,819
aside and they admittedly tell people

1164
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:10,619
they're encounter intelligence they

1165
00:48:13,849 --> 00:48:11,760
admit that

1166
00:48:15,109 --> 00:48:13,859
so I I said last question but actually

1167
00:48:18,170 --> 00:48:15,119
I'm going to stretch it out with one

1168
00:48:21,170 --> 00:48:18,180
more question because like look at at a

1169
00:48:25,069 --> 00:48:21,180
deep level if one reads your books one

1170
00:48:27,349 --> 00:48:25,079
understands that you have this deeper

1171
00:48:31,130 --> 00:48:27,359
spiritual connection yourself

1172
00:48:34,730 --> 00:48:31,140
the signal-to-noise ratio isn't lost on

1173
00:48:37,910 --> 00:48:34,740
Dr Robert Davis I'm not sure that we can

1174
00:48:40,309 --> 00:48:37,920
extend that courtesy to some of these

1175
00:48:42,050 --> 00:48:40,319
other folks and in particular you know

1176
00:48:44,870 --> 00:48:42,060
the little thing you just did on the CIA

1177
00:48:46,010 --> 00:48:44,880
it's like I guess I'd wrap this into the

1178
00:48:49,550 --> 00:48:46,020
question of you know what do you think

1179
00:48:51,770 --> 00:48:49,560
about my lab because one of the holes in

1180
00:48:54,290 --> 00:48:51,780
the free survey that you did with Ray

1181
00:48:57,890 --> 00:48:54,300
Hernandez is hey man these things are 80

1182
00:49:01,730 --> 00:48:57,900
positive well number one we can't be

1183
00:49:03,530 --> 00:49:01,740
absolutely sure that deception on that

1184
00:49:04,790 --> 00:49:03,540
other side in terms of screened memory

1185
00:49:07,690 --> 00:49:04,800
and all this other stuff which we

1186
00:49:10,130 --> 00:49:07,700
acknowledge isn't somehow

1187
00:49:12,170 --> 00:49:10,140
contaminating that in a way that weak of

1188
00:49:15,710 --> 00:49:12,180
just effectively cannot measure because

1189
00:49:18,109 --> 00:49:15,720
the technology on the other side on the

1190
00:49:20,750 --> 00:49:18,119
non-human intelligence is sufficient to

1191
00:49:22,190 --> 00:49:20,760
disguise it from us so I just throw that

1192
00:49:24,530 --> 00:49:22,200
out there and if you want to respond to

1193
00:49:25,970 --> 00:49:24,540
that that's kind of one thing but the

1194
00:49:30,410 --> 00:49:25,980
other thing is then we go to the other

1195
00:49:32,750 --> 00:49:30,420
20 which are negative and it is clear to

1196
00:49:36,290 --> 00:49:32,760
me at this point that the military

1197
00:49:37,970 --> 00:49:36,300
abduction thing is one thousand percent

1198
00:49:39,470 --> 00:49:37,980
in play and the reason I'd say one

1199
00:49:41,569 --> 00:49:39,480
thousand percent is because Gary Nolan

1200
00:49:42,890 --> 00:49:41,579
said 100 we've got to beat him but the

1201
00:49:46,849 --> 00:49:42,900
other thing is if you just look at the

1202
00:49:48,170 --> 00:49:46,859
data like look at rendelson Forest I was

1203
00:49:50,650 --> 00:49:48,180
just looking at that again because

1204
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:50,660
there's a new book out that's more

1205
00:49:55,550 --> 00:49:53,280
research more interviews with the

1206
00:49:57,910 --> 00:49:55,560
participants with The Observers the

1207
00:50:00,530 --> 00:49:57,920
military guys who were there that's

1208
00:50:02,930 --> 00:50:00,540
1980. and you know what they do to those

1209
00:50:05,410 --> 00:50:02,940
guys who observe it who see the trees

1210
00:50:08,750 --> 00:50:05,420
being knocked down see the trace

1211
00:50:11,569 --> 00:50:08,760
elements on the of The Craft see the the

1212
00:50:13,609 --> 00:50:11,579
craft lie over the nuclear missiles and

1213
00:50:16,670 --> 00:50:13,619
Target what do they do with those guys

1214
00:50:18,770 --> 00:50:16,680
they round their ass up they bring them

1215
00:50:21,650 --> 00:50:18,780
back to the base they lock them down

1216
00:50:23,390 --> 00:50:21,660
they bring in the Men in Black kind of

1217
00:50:26,569 --> 00:50:23,400
not literally but they bring in the

1218
00:50:29,990 --> 00:50:26,579
Heavy Hitters they illegally induce them

1219
00:50:32,510 --> 00:50:30,000
with sodium pentathol they subject them

1220
00:50:34,910 --> 00:50:32,520
to just the worst kind of tortured

1221
00:50:37,069 --> 00:50:34,920
interrogation they threaten them that

1222
00:50:39,050 --> 00:50:37,079
you will be killed your family will be

1223
00:50:41,510 --> 00:50:39,060
killed if you ever tell anyone about

1224
00:50:43,490 --> 00:50:41,520
this and this is not just unique to the

1225
00:50:46,069 --> 00:50:43,500
rentals from forest case this is we hear

1226
00:50:47,329 --> 00:50:46,079
this all the time the connection that I

1227
00:50:50,150 --> 00:50:47,339
haven't heard a lot of people make is

1228
00:50:52,670 --> 00:50:50,160
that's my lap that's at least the

1229
00:50:54,130 --> 00:50:52,680
beginnings of my lab because it's saying

1230
00:50:56,809 --> 00:50:54,140
the military

1231
00:51:00,230 --> 00:50:56,819
understands the abduction process enough

1232
00:51:03,829 --> 00:51:00,240
to say we got to figure it out we got to

1233
00:51:07,130 --> 00:51:03,839
know what those guys know and if that is

1234
00:51:10,309 --> 00:51:07,140
your 20 what you guys found I'm free

1235
00:51:12,710 --> 00:51:10,319
I'm not sure that's not the big story

1236
00:51:15,650 --> 00:51:12,720
rather than the 80 percent think it's

1237
00:51:18,650 --> 00:51:15,660
positive it's a it's an interesting take

1238
00:51:20,450 --> 00:51:18,660
you can't discount that as a possibility

1239
00:51:23,930 --> 00:51:20,460
and I thought I thought of that how do

1240
00:51:26,270 --> 00:51:23,940
you exclude my lab so and I and my labs

1241
00:51:28,250 --> 00:51:26,280
has happened yes the question is does it

1242
00:51:30,890 --> 00:51:28,260
still happens I don't know if abductions

1243
00:51:32,870 --> 00:51:30,900
happens like sauces aren't seen and we

1244
00:51:34,549 --> 00:51:32,880
don't have Trace elements anymore you

1245
00:51:37,790 --> 00:51:34,559
know you know things change over time

1246
00:51:39,470 --> 00:51:37,800
why does that mean motivations have

1247
00:51:41,510 --> 00:51:39,480
changed objectives have changed

1248
00:51:43,490 --> 00:51:41,520
decisions are in some unengowished

1249
00:51:46,790 --> 00:51:43,500
access program has changed or modified

1250
00:51:48,650 --> 00:51:46,800
to conform for whatever reason to comply

1251
00:51:51,650 --> 00:51:48,660
with changing events I don't know could

1252
00:51:54,349 --> 00:51:51,660
the 20 be in my library be whisked away

1253
00:51:56,329 --> 00:51:54,359
in subject is sodium pencil all in

1254
00:51:58,670 --> 00:51:56,339
screen memory yeah it happens I know

1255
00:52:00,950 --> 00:51:58,680
somebody who would happen to and that's

1256
00:52:03,589 --> 00:52:00,960
the basis for my books here's the facts

1257
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:03,599
go figure it out I'll throw in a little

1258
00:52:08,809 --> 00:52:06,000
two cents of my bias yes but I'm trying

1259
00:52:11,750 --> 00:52:08,819
to orchestrate it and and here's that

1260
00:52:14,630 --> 00:52:11,760
section of instruments that section that

1261
00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:14,640
section but let's bring it together and

1262
00:52:19,670 --> 00:52:17,760
make music as best as possible and

1263
00:52:23,030 --> 00:52:19,680
that's the basis of what I'm trying to

1264
00:52:25,430 --> 00:52:23,040
do and whatever that means to people if

1265
00:52:26,870 --> 00:52:25,440
they can support it in whatever way and

1266
00:52:29,109 --> 00:52:26,880
I hate to keep bringing it up or visit

1267
00:52:31,069 --> 00:52:29,119
our website at

1268
00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:31,079
consciousnessfilm.info we have a

1269
00:52:34,910 --> 00:52:32,880
GoFundMe page and thank you for the

1270
00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:34,920
opportunities before mentioning this and

1271
00:52:39,890 --> 00:52:37,680
for the time in which to do so so to

1272
00:52:42,290 --> 00:52:39,900
help you travel we're not expecting to

1273
00:52:44,329 --> 00:52:42,300
make money on this this is a uh with

1274
00:52:46,609 --> 00:52:44,339
Dave and Wilson tell me is a passion

1275
00:52:49,069 --> 00:52:46,619
project they're they're artists as as

1276
00:52:52,010 --> 00:52:49,079
producers cinematographers they make

1277
00:52:54,589 --> 00:52:52,020
money great you know I'm tired and you

1278
00:52:57,829 --> 00:52:54,599
know 10 20 years at best and that's and

1279
00:53:00,170 --> 00:52:57,839
I'm okay point is it's a message it's

1280
00:53:01,970 --> 00:53:00,180
not ego maybe a little bit that I so

1281
00:53:04,609 --> 00:53:01,980
behuman yes so there's a little bit of

1282
00:53:06,650 --> 00:53:04,619
ego admittedly but more importantly what

1283
00:53:09,710 --> 00:53:06,660
can I what can I bring to the table

1284
00:53:11,809 --> 00:53:09,720
leave a legacy of and maybe resonate

1285
00:53:13,790 --> 00:53:11,819
with some people that that benefit in

1286
00:53:16,549 --> 00:53:13,800
some way well it's excellent Bob I

1287
00:53:17,990 --> 00:53:16,559
always really really enjoy the

1288
00:53:19,490 --> 00:53:18,000
perspective you bring to this and the

1289
00:53:22,190 --> 00:53:19,500
work you know you put in the work so

1290
00:53:24,950 --> 00:53:22,200
thanks again I'm sure we'll do it again

1291
00:53:26,870 --> 00:53:24,960
when that when that movie gets out

1292
00:53:28,790 --> 00:53:26,880
thank you so much it's always a pleasure

1293
00:53:31,010 --> 00:53:28,800
speaking with you Alex thanks again to

1294
00:53:33,470 --> 00:53:31,020
Dr Robert Davis for joining me today on

1295
00:53:37,069 --> 00:53:33,480
skeptco one question I T up from this

1296
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:37,079
interview is what are spiritual what are

1297
00:53:42,890 --> 00:53:39,119
spiritually transformative experiences

1298
00:53:44,870 --> 00:53:42,900
telling us about encounters with ET or

1299
00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:44,880
you could ask that in reverse and kind

1300
00:53:49,790 --> 00:53:46,319
of get an interesting question as well

1301
00:53:51,950 --> 00:53:49,800
either way take a stab at it and let me

1302
00:53:55,309 --> 00:53:51,960
know what you think love to hear from

1303
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:55,319
you until next time take care bye for